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Guitar Discussions -> Its in the hands!!!
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Its in the hands!!! - Jon Slaughter - 03:29 07-11-05
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For all those homo's who insist that tone is in the hands!!
http://www.amptone.com/g041.htm
"Cesar Diaz, SRV's amp tech, claims:
SRV sounded kind of ratty back then. I went up to him and told him that he
was a great player, but he sounded like shit! He was really receptive, and
that's one thing I will always appreciate about him. He didn't cop an
attitude; he just said, "Really? Can you help me out?"
-- Guitar Shop, Oct 1996, Page 38. "
You guys that claim you have been playing 150 years and that you can play
through any amp and sound good are fuck tards. Is it that you suck so bad
you want to keep anyone away that might pose any competition(Which is pretty
easy since you must suck) or that you just don't have a clue about guitars
and amps and tone? Maybe your ears are just fucked from listening to all
that heavy metal instead of going to class in HS?
I'm glad I have some common sense not to believe your stupid lies...
unfortunately I don't know how many people you have deterimentally
influenced by your stupidity.
http://www.amptone.com/
FOR YOUR INFORMATION!!!!
Please read so you can get a clue! Ignorance isn't something to be proud of!
RichH
Guitarist511
Rob Duncan
Grolshie
you guys know who you are.... Thanks for spreading nonsense! Its just what
we need more of in this world.
Oh, I suppose its ok... what can you expect from a drop out?
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jon Slaughter - 03:33 07-11-05
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - grolschie - 05:18 07-11-05
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"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11mu41krlrh9174@corp.supernews.com...
> For all those homo's who insist that tone is in the hands!!
>
> http://www.amptone.com/g041.htm
> FOR YOUR INFORMATION!!!!
>
> Please read so you can get a clue! Ignorance isn't something to be
> proud of!
>
> RichH
> Guitarist511
> Rob Duncan
> Grolshie
>
> you guys know who you are.... Thanks for spreading nonsense! Its just
> what we need more of in this world.
>
> Oh, I suppose its ok... what can you expect from a drop out?
Gee thanks for your kind words. I'll forgive your rudeness, as you
obviously haven't been taught you to be polite. Ok, let's look at your
previous post:
"I recently picked up the guitar after putting it down for about a year
because I wasn't making any progress because I believed I really sucked
because I just could not sound like I wanted. While technically I
believe I
am/was a decent player(I suck still but). Many times I would play the
exact
same note off a recording but yet it would sound like total crap. I
brought
a decent guitar and a decent amp(two actually) but it didn't improve
much(a
little)."
So with a good guitar and 2 good amps, and you still "suck"? Then it
must be your playing then. In your own words: "I suck still but". Sure
you can spend even more on expensive gear, but it ain't going to make up
for playing that does "suck". As you said, you already got some good
amps and a good guitar. Your money would be better spent on getting some
lessons perhaps. Or maybe you should try another instrument? Good luck.
If perhaps you are still deluded, perhaps post an mp3 of your playing to
illustrate your problem. Like in your SRV example, someone here will be
able to tell if it's simply your gear at fault.
grol
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - exotic-scales - 08:03 07-11-05
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Hmm, I suppose that someone like Eric Johnson, who is known for his tone,
might not sound AS good playing through cheap gear, but I suspect he'd sound
a damn site better than me, and about 90% of the other players out there. I
had the good fortune to attend a guitar 'master's class' given by the
legendary Frank Gambale. They had him hooked up to a cheap Marshall
Valvestate amp. He STILL sounded pretty impressive to my ear. A good player
will make cheap gear sound good, but good gear won't make a shitty player
any better.
Joe
http://www.exotic-scales.com
"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11mu41krlrh9174@corp.supernews.com...
> For all those homo's who insist that tone is in the hands!!
>
> http://www.amptone.com/g041.htm
>
>
> "Cesar Diaz, SRV's amp tech, claims:
> SRV sounded kind of ratty back then. I went up to him and told him that he
> was a great player, but he sounded like shit! He was really receptive, and
> that's one thing I will always appreciate about him. He didn't cop an
> attitude; he just said, "Really? Can you help me out?"
> -- Guitar Shop, Oct 1996, Page 38. "
>
> You guys that claim you have been playing 150 years and that you can play
> through any amp and sound good are fuck tards. Is it that you suck so bad
> you want to keep anyone away that might pose any competition(Which is
> pretty easy since you must suck) or that you just don't have a clue about
> guitars and amps and tone? Maybe your ears are just fucked from listening
> to all that heavy metal instead of going to class in HS?
>
> I'm glad I have some common sense not to believe your stupid lies...
> unfortunately I don't know how many people you have deterimentally
> influenced by your stupidity.
>
> http://www.amptone.com/
>
> FOR YOUR INFORMATION!!!!
>
> Please read so you can get a clue! Ignorance isn't something to be proud
> of!
>
> RichH
> Guitarist511
> Rob Duncan
> Grolshie
>
> you guys know who you are.... Thanks for spreading nonsense! Its just what
> we need more of in this world.
>
> Oh, I suppose its ok... what can you expect from a drop out?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jon Slaughter - 08:58 07-11-05
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"exotic-scales" <jbefumo@exotic-scales.com> wrote in message
news:11muk5h3m23uh45@corp.supernews.com...
> Hmm, I suppose that someone like Eric Johnson, who is known for his tone,
> might not sound AS good playing through cheap gear, but I suspect he'd
> sound a damn site better than me, and about 90% of the other players out
> there. I had the good fortune to attend a guitar 'master's class' given
> by the legendary Frank Gambale. They had him hooked up to a cheap Marshall
> Valvestate amp. He STILL sounded pretty impressive to my ear. A good
> player will make cheap gear sound good, but good gear won't make a shitty
> player any better.
>
You are confusing tone with phrasing and musicality. Sure Eric Johnson will
"sound" good if you mean it will sound musical(i.e. his phrasing, note
choices, fluency, technique, etc) will sound good... but his tone will not.
Lets say you put EJ through a heavly distorted signal and have him play some
of his chordal melodies that he does a lot of... you think it will sound
good? Did you every play a piano with the damper pedal off and compare it to
when it was on? sounds better or worse?(i.e., the pedal is an "effect" like
reverbe in some sense).
What you were probably impressed with was not so mucht he tone but the other
factors that I listed above. Hell, you could probably plug your ears and not
hear him but just watch him and if he looks like he knows how to play then
you will probably be impressed with him.
A cheap amp will make a good player sound cheap, and an expensive amp will
make a sorry player sound expensive... but it won't turn the sorry player
into a good player.
I really can't understand though, why it is that so many people in that
supposedly spend lots of type playing the Electric Guitar have such a hard
time distinguishing tone from everything else.
Tone is the characteristic nature of the electro-mechanical process of
converting/amplifying a signal that is independent of the producer(player)
of that tone(note).
Hence, by my definition, tone is independent of the player(the person who
plays the note(tone != note here).
Someone might say, well, if he plays an AH then he changed the tone... but
that has nothing to do with what I mean by tone. Because the player had
some influence on the note. I.e., the same player can play that note the
"exact" same way on different gear but he will get a different tone
possibly(depending on the gear).
Now, it might be the case that, say, the player can do something to
influence the electro-mechanical processes that transform the tone but since
any player can do that if they know how and the tone should be changed in
the "exact" same way.
Hence, by my definition, no one can say its in the hands because it
completely excludes the hands.
Personally I don't like Gamble. He has good technique but I don't appreciate
his composing/improvising skills. His tone though, on the other hand, is ok.
Not great though... I don't care much for it.
EJ though has great tone(but the tone is not the same as Gambles) and has
great technique and musicality.
It is simply a personal preference. You may think Gamble has great tone and
EJ's tone sucks... it is a subjective choice.
Anyways, hopefully I've made my point a little more clear.
The only way I could make it more clear and only surely only someone like
RichH could not understand, is to abstract the problem away from phrasing
and "musicality". Though I doubt any of those that didn't complete HS will
even try to follow along, even though it is a simple argument... sometimes
you just have to have a few brain cells to understand something.
Lets suppose we have a theoretically perfect tone generator that produces a
pure sinusoidal(and can reproduce this exactly at any point in time).
We have some amp, cables, and a speaker cab.
We plug in our tone generator into the amp and the result is the "tone" of
the amplifier. Every amp will "color" our original tone to some degree. To
compare two amps we just have to compare the two different outputs.
Technically a perfect amplifier will produce the exact same signal on input
to output. But every amp is not perfect and most are not even close to
being perfect.
Now, in reality we couldn't just compare the sine ways as its possible for
non-linearities to creap in and make it much more complex... hence we use
the best tool we have!! OUR EARS!!!
By using our ears to compare the different tonal characteristics of
different amps we can determine which amps we prefer and even, to some
degree, which types of amps process pleasurable tone. If your ears suck
then you will probably think all amps sound the same(as some people in this
NG do)...
Anyways, that is a very simple example of what I mean by tone. I am looking
for a certain type of tone. A tone that I enjoy to hear(and just because
"you" don't doesn't mean I shouldn't either). Will this tone make me a
great guitar player? Maybe, maybe not... But what it will do is let me enjoy
my tone(which is obviously a tautology... which I have to point out cause
some idiot will say "Um, that doesn't make any sense").
Jon
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - oasysco - 09:08 07-11-05
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>For all those homo's who insist that tone is in the hands!!
OMG, they're *all* gay? I knew it; I just knew it!
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jack Wagner - 09:50 07-11-05
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Heh.. I suspect you're trolling just a bit here, but for the record I
do mostly agree with you. Pleople confuse a players phrasing and style
with his/her "tone" and I think people generally quote the "99% of your
tone is in your fingers" bit just because they here other people say
it. Politicians use the "if you say it over and over it becomes true"
technique to get elected all the time.
I've made the claim that your pick (for those who use a pick,
obviously) has more influence over your tone than your fingers do and I
firmly believe it to be true. Don't believe me, then I suggest you try
a bunch of different picks with differnet thickness and made of
different materials. It's simple physics really, you hit the string
over the pickups with your pick so of course that's going to go a long
way to define your tone. QED.
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jdavyd Williams - 10:01 07-11-05
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Jon Slaughter wrote:
> "exotic-scales" <jbefumo@exotic-scales.com> wrote in message
> news:11muk5h3m23uh45@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Hmm, I suppose that someone like Eric Johnson, who is known for his tone,
>>might not sound AS good playing through cheap gear, but I suspect he'd
>>sound a damn site better than me, and about 90% of the other players out
>>there. I had the good fortune to attend a guitar 'master's class' given
>>by the legendary Frank Gambale. They had him hooked up to a cheap Marshall
>>Valvestate amp. He STILL sounded pretty impressive to my ear. A good
>>player will make cheap gear sound good, but good gear won't make a shitty
>>player any better.
>>
>
>
> You are confusing tone with phrasing and musicality. Sure Eric Johnson will
> "sound" good if you mean it will sound musical(i.e. his phrasing, note
> choices, fluency, technique, etc) will sound good... but his tone will not.
>
Hi Jon,
it sounds like you're use of the word "tone" just happens to be
different from other folks (i'd go so far as to say you're thinking is
different from 95% of the other people i know). that doesn't make you
right and someone else wrong - it means that different folks think of
things differently.
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jon Slaughter - 10:15 07-11-05
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"Jack Wagner" <jack.wagner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131375030.827029.60460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Heh.. I suspect you're trolling just a bit here, but for the record I
> do mostly agree with you. Pleople confuse a players phrasing and style
> with his/her "tone" and I think people generally quote the "99% of your
> tone is in your fingers" bit just because they here other people say
> it. Politicians use the "if you say it over and over it becomes true"
> technique to get elected all the time.
>
Well, you call it trolling but I call it being pissed! I get tired of people
thinking they know everything about everything. I spent many years playing
the guitar trying to get good and all I got was technique.. then I quit
playing because I could play some phrase EXACTLY like some recording yet it
just didn't sound right. It sounded dead compared to theres... Maybe its
mojo... Maybe I'm not playing it EXACTLY but I'm confident I am playing it
well enough that I should sound, well, close to them.. i.e., if I play it
80% close the I should sound 80% like them. Yet I end up sounding like 4%
like them. I mean, if they just play C D E without any phrasing, come on...
how can mine sound like total shit and theres sound like it came from god?
It would be like I made the mistake of buying a clean sounding amp and not
knowing how to get the distorted sound.... These stupid fucks would sit
there and tell me its in my hands(Without having even a clue as to the exact
problem).. I could spend 100 yeras trying to get the distortion sound and I
would eventually quit because theres no way to get it. I would throw my amp
against the wall and it would brake... a few years later I'd want to play
the guitar again cause I really enjoy it but just didn't enjoy sucking so
much... I'd play it and now I'd have the distortion for some reason... and
now I'm the next hendrix. What am I suppose to think? That they were right
and it was mojo and somehow I got it over the years of not playing?
Thats similar to my situation. I'm sure my problem is much more complicated
and is a combination of many things. I assumed it I didn't have what it
takes so I quit guitar... I picked it up about a week ago and put some
strings on it and played... same shit... but this time I could tell
definitely it was the tone. I used Guitar Rig and 10x improvement... hence
its the tone... if it was me then my tone wouldn't have improved one single
bit. Maybe there are some other factors that are involved but its definately
not 95% in the hands. And personally thats just confusing the issues as you
have mentioned.
> I've made the claim that your pick (for those who use a pick,
> obviously) has more influence over your tone than your fingers do and I
> firmly believe it to be true. Don't believe me, then I suggest you try
> a bunch of different picks with differnet thickness and made of
> different materials. It's simple physics really, you hit the string
> over the pickups with your pick so of course that's going to go a long
> way to define your tone. QED.
Yeah, but if you could have a computer capture every aspect of the way you
pick a string then it should be able to reproduce the tone exactly. Though
I could be just doing everything wrong with my right hand and it just kills
the tone somehow... I don't see how though. I tend to play near the neck
though, almost right over hte neck pu, as when I play towards the bridge my
fingers tend to run into the volumn knob(which I am thinking of moving
farther away) and usually turns the volumn down ;/ This is a real issue when
palm muting. The problem is that I would like for the volumn knob to be
there so I can do volumn swells and stuff. Not sure were I could put it so I
can get both things though.
I have used several different types of picks. Not lately though. Sure they
do change the tone slightly... but not the part of the tone that I am
talking about. The tone I am after has to do with the overdrive part of the
tubes. I think its called "Tweed Sound" but I'm not sure. Its the way the
tubes gently distorte the signal when not over driven but distort it
strongly when played with stronger dynamics... but they distort in a way
that is "sharp" and not "muddy"(I don't really know how to discribe it
though).
Jon
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Re: Its in the hands!!! - Jon Slaughter - 10:15 07-11-05
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